Kromac, Champion of the Wurm - List Discussion (part 2)

You may remember from here: Kromac, Champion of Wurm List Discussion (Part 1) that I talked a lot about playing Kromac2 and what his list construction is.  I believe as of the time of this post that I've played 53 games with Kromac2 at 50 points, making him my 2nd most played Warlock ever.  With that in mind I want to share some insights in those games as well as some next steps I'm planning to take and maybe some preliminary discussion of list pairings.

Current List

Here is the variation that I ended up playing most of my games with.  You'll recognize it as being the variation made popular by Will Pagani at WTC (and nearly the same list he played to qualify for the WMW Invitational):

Kromac, Champion of the Wurm
* Ghetorix
* Warpwolf Stalker
* Shadowhorn Satyr
* Gorax
* Druid Wilder
Shifting Stones
* Stone Keeper
Shifting Stones
Druids of Orboros
* Druid Overseer
Lord of the Feast
Alten Ashley

I think that its important that I'm sharing the list that I've played before digging into any insights with it so that I'm framing the discussion properly.  So now, lets look into some of my findings!

Observations

General:

I think that somewhere Will said "Kromac2 can beat any army that is based around living models" and I think as long as I do my best playing him that Will is probably correct.  If the scenario allows for Kromac to brick up, and he can mitigate placement properly with the Druids, his battle group will be DEF 18 or 19 against charges and he can potentially feat to add +2 ARM for everything as well in the right circumstances.  I have played a few variations on this list now, and I find that what is the most important is that he is the anchor to the list.  One of the issues a lot of Circle lists often can have is the problem of if you lose your 1-2 heavies that you're done.  Kromac IS a heavy himself basically.

Some mistakes that I believe that I have made however are when to be more defensive, when to use distance for defense instead of my brick, and when I can afford to play more offense.

Druids of Orboros:

I probably could try to play these better than I do, but they're such a strong piece of the list.  Being able to cause things to suffer -2 to their attack in when they get that close can be amazingly clutch.  Also, with this many beasts, Medicate can definitely come up.  Being able to be immune to the elements definitely is an important feature in a lot of games, and counter magic really amps up how much you can brick up.  Once in a while I get work out of the Devouring on the UA, mostly they exist to help you solidify your defensive position.

I do think there are builds of Kromac that can play without the Druids, but you won't be able to rely on taking DEF nearly so much.  So far, they've definitely been valuable in the list.

Druid Wilder:

With so many beasts, for 2 points, getting a free 2nd Lightning Strike, or once in a while a free 2nd Primal is huge.  She's more important than the Shifting Stones if you ask me.

Lord of the Feast:

I initially played a couple of games with him and was having trouble figuring out how to get his value out of him.  After putting him through a lot more paces, I have come to absolutely love playing this model, especially in this list.  Another source of Terror never hurts, and if played well, through out a game he can definitely do a lot of work.  Trying to get a corpse to boost the Raven seems to be pretty key, as does having the Lightning Strike animus.  I might go more into detail, but the disruption that this guy can cause is definitely valuable to this list.

I am absolutely excited to get more play with this guy.

Alten Ashley:

He can help put an extra d6 of damage on a beast, and he has about the longest gun for picking out a support solo or two.  With this build, I find that this two point slot isn't all that important.  I have enjoyed Alten in this list, but honestly he's a take it or leave it piece for sure.

Blackclad Wayfarer:

I mention this model because its the other piece that I've played in place of Alten.  I think this is acceptable for that 2 point slot as well.  Getting a longer and free charge can definitely be worth it for some of the beasts in this army.  That said, most of the time you're more catching their army in your mitt, so he spends a lot of turns spraying, which is fine too.  Again, can take it or leave it.

Shadowhorn Satyr:

I've long looked for a place to play this guy, so when I saw that Will was playing him in the list I was very excited.  First, even though he doesn't hit that hard, he does have the longest threat range in the list on his own (6" walk + 5" bounding leap + 0.5" melee range = 11.5").  At the end of that movement he can do a pretty potent two-handed throw as well.  Lets me use him in all manner of ways that a lot of time people don't consider.  I probably need to actually be looking more and more to get throws out of him.  In addition, charging him with a Druid Vortex and/or Primal Howl affecting him is a bad time, which makes him a great fit for the list.

Warpwolf Stalker:

If there was ever a model that was probably labelled "essential" it would be this guy.  Reach is always important, he's one of the few models that can easily attack a lot of models.  However, the real reason that he's important is that Lightning Strike is the most important part of this list.  When I had a Rotterhorn in the list, what it was most frequently doing was putting Acceleration on the Druid Wilder so that I could get a 3rd Lightning Strike.  This is the prime target for Awakened Spirit for the most part, certainly in this list.  Lightning Strike is that important.  I would definitely consider bringing a 2nd Warpwolf Stalker depending on how the list changes.

Side Note: I have seen some posts/articles which have theorized that putting Awakened Spirit on a Rotterhorn in the list is the most efficient fury use we can get, because you can get a free Lightning Strike from the Wilder.  That doesn't make sense to me because you can just get one for free by putting it on the Stalker.  I suppose it can let her use Condition twice, but in an army that's as mobile as this I rarely am within 3" of the correct two beasts to benefit from that interaction.

Ghetorix:

He's not necessary, but he is fantastic for the list.  If you don't have him in another list, he's going to be very strong here.  +1 POW and +1 MAT can be very important at times, combined with Unyielding putting him in a place where he benefits a lot more from the feat.  With the feat and Primal you will once in a while be able to trade him WAYYY up on his points too.

Shifting Stones:

An ever present unit for Circle.  You have enough beasts that they're pretty important for fury management, and with how much of a brick you create they're pretty important for being able to get your beasts or Kromac out of their bunker and to do work.  I do think you can have success with just a single unit, but I do think I'll find it hard pressed to start the game with any less than one unit.

Next Steps

Realistically there are a lot of places that I could go from here.  I could just drop Kromac2 altogether, but honestly I've had too much success with him and he's just too much of a blast to do that.  So the next step is to just keep cranking away with the build that I have, but I think at least testing a few ideas, even if I were just to return to this is where I'm at.

The second piece, and I plan to explore these in turn, is that I need to explore my pairings with Kromac2 to see what I think I like the best there as well.  Krueger2 is an always popular warlock, and I could continue to default to him, but while he's usually strong into Legion and Cygnar, his Cryx game is solid, but honestly I think that it could be stronger too.  So I'm planning to cover some thoughts on this in the rest of the blog.

New Lists

Argus Assault:

This list is actually pilfered from a Canadian who recently won a somewhat major tournament up north, and the list looks like a lot of fun!  This list idea is so radically different that I'm not necessarily sure how to evaluate which games it becomes stronger in and which it becomes weaker in, but it looks like a blast to play and I do think it will be fun.  I've made a slight tweak which allows for me to get the Stone Keeper in the list, but its otherwise the same.

Kromac, Champion of the Wurm

* Warpwolf Stalker

* Winter Argus

* Winter Argus

* Argus

* Argus

* Argus

* Argus

* Argus

* Argus Moonhound

* Argus Moonhound

* Gorax

* Gorax

Shifting Stones

* Stone Keeper

Shifting Stones

Tharn Bloodweaver Night Witch

Tharn Bloodweaver Night Witch

Tier 1: +1 FA to Tharn models/units

Tier 2: For each Bloodweaver Unit or Solo a model with Heart Eater gains a corpse token

Tier 3: -1 point on light warbeasts

Advantages here are obviously that for 3 points, a Primal'd Argus hits very hard.  Additionally, Winter Arguses are very tanky, and the Moonhounds are going to help with their sprays and/or applying Paralysis maybe to a model if needs be.  Night Witches provide Kromac with a pair of Corpse Tokens to start the game, which is handy if he wants to throw a Primal Shock out (something that I have rarely done with my current build).  Biggest thing I lose out on here is that I have to get work done with the 2nd heavy being replaced by Arguses, and more than that I lose Druids which changes from being able to make my battlegroup up to DEF 18, that I'm working with only DEF 17 in most cases.  It doesn't have a ton of fury management either, so there is that aspect.

Biggest draw back of this list for me is just that I'm not really going to get a ton of benefit from my previous 50+ games when playing it, I think it will be a brand new experience.  Could really be a pro or a con frankly.

There might be another build similar to this which swaps the Arguses for Griffons.

Storm Raptor:

Kromac, Champion of the Wurm

* Storm Raptor

* Warpwolf Stalker

* Gorax

* Druid Wilder

Druids of Orboros

* Druid Overseer

Shifting Stones

* Stone Keeper

Shifting Stones

Lord of the Feast

Feralgeist

Kromac, Champion of the Wurm

* Storm Raptor

* Storm Raptor

* Gorax

Druids of Orboros

* Druid Overseer

Shifting Stones

* Stone Keeper

The idea with both of these lists is essentially the same, its see how the Storm Raptor will play with Kromac.  They both approach things differently, but essentially my thought is that they benefit from a lot of his abilities.  Awakened Spirit for the free Skyfire which seems quite strong, getting POW 12 electroleaps, plasma nimbus and the gun should be strong in a lot of games.  Carnage is one of the best ways for it to boost its MAT which it definitely could use, the feat is great for it and Primal Howl (and Druids) are making it DEF 16 vs Melee, which can be a pretty big deal for a model like this.  Given that the Storm Raptor doesn't have a release just yet, you can file this one away probably as a future experiment.

Eat Your Heart Out:

Kromac, Champion of the Wurm

* Warpwolf Stalker

* Warpwolf Stalker

* Shadowhorn Satyr

* Gorax

Druids of Orboros

* Druid Overseer

Shifting Stones

* Stone Keeper

Lord of the Feast

Death Wolves

This list has a few different ideas going on.  First, adding in the Death Wolves gives me a lot more viable options into a few more infantry, and I could probably use them to get a little bit of damage on if there aren't viable infantry.  To make the points work I've changed Ghetorix down to a second Warpwolf Stalker, which is another thing that helps Kromac play into a few more infantry.  Its possible that Razorwing Griffon or Scarsfell Griffon has some play here too.  I worry that it makes me less viable into some of the more extreme armor skews, but I do think the Death Wolves could be fantastic with Carnage, auto-hits on the feat, and will help him have presence for more split scenarios too.

Pairing

This is the biggest thing to consider.  Kromac2 can actually play into a LOT more matchups than people think that he can.  A lot of folks don't think he's that viable into Legion, but I think that with his spell list that he can play into it better than most.  I don't think he's our best drop into Lylyth2 really, but he's one of the few who should be able to weather her feat.  However, Cryx is definitely not something that I'm eager to play a small footprint into that wants to get a lot of Corpse tokens.  Wouldn't hurt to have other options into things like Cygnar and Protectorate either.

Krueger the Stormlord

This has been my original pair, I think that it could still remain that build, he's very strong into Legion, Cygnar and Protectorate.  He's been decent into Cryx because I can get a lot of turns of shooting, or sprinting Stalkers and so on.  Its still tough to get the volume of attacks out sometimes quickly against a good Cryx opponent.

Krueger the Stormwrath

Old stand-by for playing into Cryx.  This is the guy who can produce an absolutely amazing number of damage rolls for Cryx to have to deal with.  The Tharn Bloodweaver Night Witch really changes a lot of his game around in my opinion because of the sheer number of guys that the Night Witch and the Bloodweavers unit can chew through.  Add in the feat, Chain Lightning and Skyborne to the mix and there are some good plays into Cryx here.  I think that I can play the list into Legion if I need/want to as well since Krueger can stay back farther and Bloodweavers can do a number on Legion beasts.  Since Cygnar is usually not the lightning-immune variety too, so that's an option.

Kromac the Ravenous

One of Circle's oldest answers to the Cryx problem.  Bestial can shut down a LOT of things that people aren't used to having to play around.  He can also bring 3 heavies which can deal with a lot of infantry.  Problem is that in general this basically solidifies that I'll need to play Kromac2 into Harbinger and Legion.  He can also require a very tight game of hit and run in order to make it through all of the game.

Cassius the Oathkeeper

I have put this guy through a LOT of reps, he can be absolutely amazing into Cryx largely due to Hellmouth being so strong.  Druids can help shore up a lot of the matchups where debuffs might be happening.  I've definitely been investigating the potential for Croak Raiders here which are strong into a lot of games where I need to deal with more higher ARM stuff, the most interesting aspect being Bradigus probably.  I also have some ideas that involve Bloodtrackers, Wolf Riders and Efaarit Scouts, all of which can be strong into Cryx, and probably a few other things as well.

Morvahna the Autumnblade

So, she can be one of the best answers to Lylyth2 out there, and a lot of other Legion as well.  Can play a pretty strong game against Cygnar and Cryx as well.  Major weaknesses being Protectorate, and really anything with strong upkeep removal.  She can also play very slowly, which historically hasn't been a strong point for me.

Morvahna the Dawnshadow

So, she's not the greatest Cryx drop ever, and I think I'd need to be careful about how I approach her list if I want it to really be strong there.  Historically the ONE thing that I would need to pair her with was a Cryx drop, so her with Kromac2 becomes problematic.  That said, she definitely can cover a lot of the other things.  She can definitely be very strong into Legion, Cygnar she does ok as long as its not a double Stormwall build, and she's generally fantastic into Protectorate as well.  Most of how I played her the first time around was with the Woldwrath, Reeves and Skinwalkers.  I really want to keep playing Reeves with her, but not sure how else I may choose to explore her, or return to that old standby if I explore her.  She's also very strong as a 3rd list for Iron Gauntlet which is coming in late March for Adepticon.

Bradigus Thorle the Runecarver

He can be played into Cryx, and definitely is not the list that most Legion or Protectorate want to play into.  That said, he's not actually that great of a Cryx answer either because there is a proliferation of people who are playing Skarre1 these days, and if they play it right or I screw up even a little I think that I can be in trouble.

Baldur the Stonecleaver

The darkhorse in all of this, mostly I've been considering him because he too feels pretty strong with Croak Raiders, and some Witch Doctors.  No Knockdown can be fantastic for them when they Tough, especially since they'll put Continuous Corrosion on whatever hits them in melee if they do Tough.  He can play decently into Legion I think, as well as a lot of other things.  I'd often considered trying out his old theme force too just to see if its scenario presence is still there.  He has one of the few feats that can affect things like colossals.  Still though, not 100% that this is where I'm going to look, but figured I'd mention it

The Rest

There might still be a solid answer in the rest.  I do think that Grayle can sometimes be much more interesting on the table than he's given credit for, Stealth for the army and himself can be strong.  Storm Rager is a surprisingly good spell, but the rest makes it tough for sure.  Mohsar has been considered, but I'm not sure that I feel great about Pillars as an answer with an uptick in all of the typed damage.  Either Kaya has strengths, but they tend not to be against Cryx, I suppose a Kaya1 list with Moonhounds and a lot of sprays could be interesting.  Kaya2 I think if I wanted an off list I might start exploring Soothe the Savage Beast, but that's a lot of Bloodpack to get painted in what isn't a long time.

Wrap-up

I don't think that this will be my last blog about Kromac2.  He's too fun to play and there are too many more things to explore with him.  Hell, I'm not even sure there is a combination with him and a living battlegroup that goes "wrong" either.  Hoping to report my findings with some of these pairings as well as the other list ideas that I have with him.